English translations erwünscht?

[LudicrousC 5375]

J’y pense, comme je viens tout juste de le voir: dans la trad’ en français de Roter Sand, à "Il dit que je t’aurais volée", il manque le -e du féminin.

 

@Lies

I go back to your translation of Roter Sand.

 

Le 26/05/2022 à 11:52, Lies a dit :

Things that are not yet correct keep popping up in my head, for instance for this one the distinction between zu Grund and zum Grund. Zu Grund means a.o. to die and to be destroyed. To literally go to the ground would be zu dem Grund / zum Grund, which then again also would mean "for a reason" (and some other things too)

 

Yep, it can also be spelled "zugrunde".  The main problem with "go down" is that there are too many other meanings. Here, I think we should keep it as close as "perish" or "die". But I understand why you'd like to use words close to the original line, so maybe "I'm going under"? (Makes me think of an Evanescence song though ) Or even, "I'm going six feet under"? (But it's getting even further from the original line.)

 

Here is what I'd change:

 

 

Roter Sand - Red sand

 

One love one promise

Said I'll come back to you => I said I’d come back to you

Now alas I have to break it

His bullet placed in me => His bullet is stuck inside me

 

One love two pistols

One targets me in the face => One is aiming at my face

He says I had stolen you => He says I must have stolen you (from him)

That you love me he doesn't know => He is not aware of your love for me

 

Red sand and two bullets => cartridges

One dies in a powder kiss => in the powder kiss

The second will not save its target => The second one mustn’t spare its target

Sticks already deep in my chest => Now stuck deep inside my chest

 

One love one promise

Oh the blood runs from the mouth => Oh, blood is running from my mouth

And no one will avenge me

Pointless I go down => Pointlessly I perish (Pointlessly I'm going under)

 

One love two pistols

One could draw faster

Well then it wasn't me

Now you belong to him

 

Red sand and two bullets => cartridges

One dies in a powder kiss => in the powder kiss

The second will not save its target => The second one mustn’t spare its target

Sticks already deep in my chest => Now stuck deep inside my chest

 

Red sand and white doves

Feast on my blood

At last there is an end

I am still good for something

 

Red sand and two bullets => cartridges

One dies in a powder kiss => in the powder kiss

The second will not save its target => The second one mustn’t spare its target

Sticks already deep in my chest => Now stuck deep inside my chest

 

 

Notes:

I chose the present continuous sometimes as it makes a more vivid description in English. Also, I chose the modals would ('d) and must because they sound better grammatically, but I agree that it's not exactly what was written in the original text. (Choosing the right tense is often a nightmare! )

 

[Lies 1396]

Hi @LudicrousC that is a lot of stuff to chew on

 

I'll read carefully and respond the way you have done with notes per song. This can result in scrolling through pages, but if I/we use the @ functionality we can work from the notifications list instead. Downside is no @ and the comment is not noted, disciplin is not always my forte.

 

A swift scan reveals me two things:

 

1. I still have enough to learn when it comes to German. Although the Dutch and German language are related, especially the grammar is difficult for me to always understand/apply correctly. I'll study your corrections and see if I "can make chocolate out of it" (a Dutch expression  ), resulting in an OK, an inquiry or a stubborn remark 

2. that you have taken some more liberty at deviation from the original lines. I do agree that this produces more fluent/beautiful English, as is shown by the last line you reviewed on Roter Sand (Steckt jetzt > Sticks already vs Now stuck). I would also like to take into account the wish of Pierrick to stay as close to the original lines as possible, which then would most of the time result in the " Sticks already" option. Can we assume that Pierrick trusts you on this to deviate slightly? Then I will gladly go with you. I'll wait a bit before I start reading/replying, as the two different starting points lead to quite different results.

 

I do enjoy discussing texts together! Unfortunately this is my last day of from work and tomorrow the other serious shit starts again  Less fun but (nice) food on the table, which is also quite important  Then again we are are talking about texts of an album released in 2009, I don't think anyone will die if it takes us some time, the characters that died in the stories are dead already  . No reply = doing other stuff

 

 

[Lies 1396]

Kommt ein dicker Mann in eine Bäckerei:

"Bitte einmal Rumkugeln"

 

Darauf der Bäcker:

"Nah, legen Sie sich mal hin"

 

I like this joke 

[LudicrousC 5375]

Il y a 4 heures, Lies a dit :

1. I still have enough to learn when it comes to German.

 

Oh, I don't really speak German perfectly either, but I know a few tips from translation classes that can help anytime.

 

Il y a 4 heures, Lies a dit :

2. that you have taken some more liberty at deviation from the original lines.

 

Yep, I actually prefer finding what sounds better in the target language, but used to get as close as possible to Till's texts for translations here, as that was what was asked for. However, the last French translations published on the site deviate a lot from the original, so... I now stick to a "go-between". When I feel it sounds wrong in English with Word-translation, I go for full-on Concept-translation. But when I believe Word-translation matters (e.g. when the words seem to have been especially picked, when there's a theme, or something), I get as close to the original text as I can.

 

For Roter Sand, for example, the story seems to matter more than the specific words that Till picked. The emotion comes from the situation, the love triangle through "one versus two" repeated several times, so that's why I get away from Word-translation here, since it'd sound a bit "heavy" sometimes.

 

Il y a 4 heures, Lies a dit :

I do agree that this produces more fluent/beautiful English, as is shown by the last line you reviewed on Roter Sand (Steckt jetzt > Sticks already vs Now stuck).

 

If you prefer, we could switch for:

"Sticking already" or "Now sticking"

instead. Up to you.

 

To explain my first choice: "jetzt" gives the impression that the bullet went too fast, the persona didn't have time to speak, the bullet killed him already. Thus the repetition of the same moment (it's described several times, including once without the characters - only the bullets go their own way) - he has to rewind and repeat in order to have time to tell the story.

 

What I mean is, I tried to convey this idea with the past participle. But I don't mind the V-ing form either here.  Actually, the V-ing form could be better here as it translates "jetzt" much better and sounds good even without a subject at the beginning of the line.

 

(That's why I added the subject line 2 - "sagte" is obviously "ich" but in English, "said" can apply to every pronoun. Sticking to the orginal can create confusion.)

 

 

Il y a 4 heures, Lies a dit :

Unfortunately this is my last day of from work and tomorrow the other serious shit starts again

 

Same here! Don't worry, we're not in a hurry. (Besides, you've translated quite a lot of songs in a very short period of time! Impressive stuff here! )

 

Just in case you're following the tracklist, I'll be working on Liese to start from the bottom, also because it's the only LIFAD song I've translated into French for the website. (It should be easier, though I remember a few tricky lines that would need your help probably.)

[Lies 1396]

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

Also, I haven't managed to open the Wiener Blut file (I probably don't own the proper software for it) so I couldn't read what you've put in it.

 @LudicrousC

I see I forgot to save the file including the file extension, yesterday I replaced it so it should work now. A bit of an occupational hazard: It might be that you do not have file extensions visible in the file browser on your computer. If so, please enable so you can always see what the actual filename is. Cyber criminals a.o. make use of hidden file extensions to trick you into opening/executing malicious files, which can give them backdoor access or other manipulation abilities from a distance, with potentially very negative consequences.  (maybe you already know, but in Dutch we say: a forewarned man counts for 2  , which is a bit like: better safe than sorry)

[LudicrousC 5375]

@Lies Perfect, now I got it - I'll have a look at it tomorrow afternoon.

 

Meanwhile, I'm adding here my first draft for Liese (there are 3 lines on which I pondered a lot and am still not sure if it's the best translation):

 

 

 

Liese

 

Sunday on the meadow near the Amper*

Liese is dutifully herding geese ¤

Here is Jakob running up to her

Holding a sickle in his hand

 

He’s shoving it now and then

Under little Liese’s skirt and bodice

He wants to have a taste of her, to force her

And the lad will then sing

 

Dear Liese, leave the geese

I want to taste your skin

The scythe gets rusty from blood

If you’re not nice to me

 

Jakob may lick little Liese

And she'll taste like pear

Tiny hairs stand on end

Rushing her to the wheatfield

 

Well hidden in the golden stream

He pinned down Liese

He held her tight until nightfall

And he sang inside the child

 

Dear Liese, leave the geese

I want to taste your skin

The scythe gets rusty from blood

If you’re not nice to me

 

Notes:

 

*I think Ammer refers to the Amper, a stream in Bavaria.

¤ Liese is watching geese as she should

Edited June 8, 2022 by LudicrousC
Corrections After feedback

[LudicrousC 5375]

@LiesHere I am back again for Wiener Blut. You might dislike the changes I've made (directly in bold letters below), but no worries, your translation was fine actually - I just try to keep the whole as coherent as possible with the interpretation I've got and also the translation in French on the website.

 

Wiener Blut - Viennese Blood

 

Come with me come to my castle

Fun is waiting there in the cellar

Quiet, we want to be quiet

To release the moment from time

Yes, paradise is lying beneath the house

The door is slammed shut, the light goes out

 

Are you ready

Are you prepared

Welcome to the darkness

In the darkness

 

No one can interfere down here

Nobody, nobody may hear us

No, we won’t be discovered

We let ourselves enjoy life

And if you are lonely sometimes

I plant a little sister in you

What a young skin, what a firm flesh

Underneath the house a love nest

 

Are you ready

Are you prepared

Welcome to the darkness

In the darkness

In the loneliness

In the sadness

For eternity

Welcome to reality

And if you’re walking in the deep valley

Are you ready

Your life shall be without any light

Are you prepared

Fear no misfortune no pain

Get ready

I’m close to you and holding you

Holding you in the darkness

In the darkness

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by LudicrousC

[Lies 1396]

On 5/31/2022 at 10:42 AM, LudicrousC said:

Sunday on the meadow near the Amper*

I found there are 2 small rivers named Ammer, one in Bayern and one in Baden-Württemberg. Also Ammer is the name of a type of bird. I think it is safer to keep the name the name, as we do not know what is referred to. I would suggest "Sunday on the Ammer meadow" 

 

On 5/31/2022 at 10:42 AM, LudicrousC said:

Liese is quietly watching geese ¤

Hüten = is more in the area of to tend, but watching is also possible. Brav is more in the area of "do as you are told, or expected". There are many English synonyms in the area of brav, so which one to pick is difficult. I like the article in this sentence, but it doesn't fit with "the Liese", so maybe we can instead switch the article to the geese. To summarize I would suggest "Liese is dutiful watching the geese" / "Liese is dutiful tending the geese"

 

On 5/31/2022 at 10:42 AM, LudicrousC said:

He wants to have a taste of her, to force her

"He wants to taste her, wants to force her" is more similar to the original text, short but (not) sweet

 

On 5/31/2022 at 10:42 AM, LudicrousC said:

Dear Liese, let the geese go

She is not keeping the geese in custody but her attention is with them, to leave or to leave them be might be better: "Dear Liese, leave the geese"

On 5/31/2022 at 10:42 AM, LudicrousC said:

And she tastes like pear

sie wird = she will, I would suggest: "And she'll taste like pear", which is a bit like a wish of Jacob, or sounds like a promise

 

On 5/31/2022 at 10:42 AM, LudicrousC said:

Rushing her to the wheatfield

"Eilen sie" could also be "they rush", but considering the context there is not much they

 

[Lies 1396]

@LudicrousC Now you are more productive as I have been 

 

Just had a peek at Liese, I posted some remarks above this one. 

 

I take a look at one song at a time, when I start one I'll scan the whole post to make sure I don't miss any remarks, so no worries about second or third thoughts posted later.  

[LudicrousC 5375]

Il y a 10 heures, Lies a dit :

I found there are 2 small rivers named Ammer, one in Bayern and one in Baden-Württemberg. Also Ammer is the name of a type of bird. I think it is safer to keep the name the name, as we do not know what is referred to. I would suggest "Sunday on the Ammer meadow" 

 

I understand but the most famous river of the two is actually called Amper in English. Tough to get what was menant here if we just give the German name, isn't it?

 

Citation

 

Hüten = is more in the area of to tend, but watching is also possible. Brav is more in the area of "do as you are told, or expected". There are many English synonyms in the area of brav, so which one to pick is difficult. I like the article in this sentence, but it doesn't fit with "the Liese", so maybe we can instead switch the article to the geese. To summarize I would suggest "Liese is dutiful watching the geese" / "Liese is dutiful tending the geese"

 

Okay, you're getting closer to the text but:

- the geese (with article) is when they were mentioned before, but it's the beginning of the song here (grammatically the article "the" is totally different from der/das/die in German)

- I like your choice (dutiful) it's indeed better but it's an adverb here, and there are very few adjectives that can be used as adverbs in English (bad, tight...) So here I'd put dutifully instead.

- not sure if you can "tend" animals actually. It sounds a bit weird to me. I'll check it out once I come back from Berlin.

 

Citation

"He wants to taste her, wants to force her" is more similar to the original text, short but (not) sweet

 

I thought that "have a taste of" was better with a person. ("Taste a person" is really weird in English.)

 

Citation

 

She is not keeping the geese in custody but her attention is with them, to leave or to leave them be might be better: "Dear Liese, leave the geese"

 

You're right, I'll change that.

 

Citation

sie wird = she will, I would suggest: "And she'll taste like pear", which is a bit like a wish of Jacob, or sounds like a promise

 

 

I didn't see things that way but your interpretation is legit. I'll change that.

 

Citation

 

"Eilen sie" could also be "they rush", but considering the context there is not much they

 

 Yep, that's the line I find difficult to understand actually, along with the one with tiny hair. I thought maybe there was some kind of metonymy here. (The hair would be a representation of Jakob, as he might be too young to have a beard, and that's what rushes to the field?)

 

Thanks for the feedback.

Edited June 3, 2022 by LudicrousC
Spelling mistakes

[Lies 1396]

@LudicrousC have fun at the concert!

Edited June 4, 2022 by Lies
.

[Lies 1396]

@LudicrousC

 

On 6/3/2022 at 7:11 AM, LudicrousC said:

On 6/2/2022 at 8:44 PM, Lies said:

I found there are 2 small rivers named Ammer, one in Bayern and one in Baden-Württemberg. Also Ammer is the name of a type of bird. I think it is safer to keep the name the name, as we do not know what is referred to. I would suggest "Sunday on the Ammer meadow" 

 

I understand but the most famous river of the two is actually called Amper in English. Tough to get what was menant here if we just give the German name, isn't it?

 

Which is true, unfortunately I don't have any intell on what is actually meant here. If we choose Amper, we suggest that we do know. If you are more certain than I am, I'll go with you and we'll change the 1 letter  

 

On 6/3/2022 at 7:11 AM, LudicrousC said:

Quote

Hüten = is more in the area of to tend, but watching is also possible. Brav is more in the area of "do as you are told, or expected". There are many English synonyms in the area of brav, so which one to pick is difficult. I like the article in this sentence, but it doesn't fit with "the Liese", so maybe we can instead switch the article to the geese. To summarize I would suggest "Liese is dutiful watching the geese" / "Liese is dutiful tending the geese"

 

Okay, you're getting closer to the text but:

- the geese (with article) is when they were mentioned before, but it's the beginning of the song here (grammatically the article "the" is totally different from der/das/die in German)

- I like your choice (dutiful) it's indeed better but it's an adverb here, and there are very few adjectives that can be used as adverbs in English (bad, tight...) So here I'd put dutifully instead.

- not sure if you can "tend" animals actually. It sounds a bit weird to me. I'll check it out once I come back from Berlin.

- agree

- agree

- a quick search on alternatives also brings: herding geese

> brings us to: Liese is dutifully herding geese?

 

On 6/3/2022 at 7:11 AM, LudicrousC said:

Quote

"He wants to taste her, wants to force her" is more similar to the original text, short but (not) sweet

 

I thought that "have a taste of" was better with a person. ("Taste a person" is really weird in English.)

I agree, but I think it is also a bit weird in German. All references I can find on "kosten" refer to tasting food in a manner that is enjoyful or to taste the nice things in life, but never people. However in German the verb "vernaschen" means to eat with great pleasure. "Jemand vernaschen" means to have sex with someone. Also I do recollect there is an old phrase in Dutch which is hardly ever used anymore. If a couple marries and they do not have sex before the wedding, in the wedding night they are (or most often the male is referred to be) "consumming the marriage" (with double mm instead of one m). The origin is in Latin where consummare means to complete or something like that. 

 

Anyways, what about: He wants to have a taste of her, wants to force her

 

On 6/3/2022 at 7:11 AM, LudicrousC said:

Quote

"Eilen sie" could also be "they rush", but considering the context there is not much they

 

 Yep, that's the line I find difficult to understand actually, along with the one with tiny hair. I thought maybe there was some kind of metonymy here. (The hair would be a representation of Jakob, as he might be too young to have a beard, and that's what rushes to the field?)

That could very well be. I wouldn't go that far in the interpretation, as we just don't know. I think the lines you have right now are clean and crisp.

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by Lies
2nd thought

[Lies 1396]

@LudicrousC I think your second review / alterations of Wiener Blut makes the text more fluent and really great!

 

I have 2 things still to remark:

 

On 6/2/2022 at 9:17 AM, LudicrousC said:

In the darkness

In the loneliness

In the sadness

I like the repeating of the "the", as the German text also repeats the "in der". Why do you prefer to skip the repetitions?

 

On 6/2/2022 at 9:17 AM, LudicrousC said:

And if you’re walking in the deep valley

Are you ready

Your life shall be without any light

Are you prepared

I would guess these 2 sentences:

    Und wanderst du im tiefen Tal
    Und sei dein Dasein ohne Licht

Are conditional to this one:

    Fürchte kein Unglück keine Qual

 

Also I do not see a lead in the line "Und sei dein Dasein ohne Licht"  towards the shall in "you life shall be". Can you elaborate a bit on that one? A matching alternative could be:

And if you’re walking in the deep valley

And if your life is without any light

Fear no misfortune no pain

 

 

 

[Lies 1396]

@LudicrousC

PUSSY

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

Mercedes-Benz and motorway

Alone abroad driving => Driving abroad alone (on your own)

Travel, travel, driving pleasure (Joy of driving ?)

I just want to have fun not fall in love

I think both are fine alterations when we don't have to stick to the more literal text

> Driving abroad alone

> Travel, travel, the joy of driving

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

Too short too tall,

Doesn't matter one size fits all

Too big too small

The toll bar should be up => be lifted

More appealing to the imagination

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

Beautiful miss lust for more => Beautiful young lady lust for more

Blitzkrieg with the meat rifle

Schnapps in the head, you fair bride

I put sausage in your sauerkraut

ok

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

* I think Till's talking about a man here (he often pointed at Paul on stage while singing this line)

You are more of a connaisseur of Rammstein than I am

I can imagine when he wrote the text "Er könnte etwas größer sein", at that moment he was not thinking of Paul. Maybe when you are on stage having fun with your friends this is what automatically happens.

 

Then this should be the final/agreed version: 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Lies
deleted previous version of Pussy

[Lies 1396]

@LudicrousC

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

LIFAD - Love is there for all (There is love for everyone)

Both are good options. As a Dutch person I associate "all" more with the group concept: the largest group possible, namely the one with everyone in it.  On the other hand "everyone" to me is more on the "no one is exluded" side. Regarding this text I would go for the "no one is excluded" side, as he forces others to include him. Which is of course 'contradictio in terminis", or in text in this case

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

Warm water

Beautiful bodies

How they shine

In the sun

I sneak up

And talk decent => I’m smooth-tongued

Who wants to fuck

Has to be friendly

or: And talk smooth or: I am a smooth talker 

I have a slight preference for: I sneak up and I talk smooth, as it is closest to the original text and flows pretty good in English

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

I close my eyes

Then I can see her

I enclose her in my fantasy => I lock her up into my fantasy

I close my eyes

She doesn't fight back

Love is there for all

Not for me

ok

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

Warm water

Beautiful bodies

Not for me

It avoids =>  It runs away (from me)

Finest forms (shapes?)

Well-built

Full mouth

Skin so brown

ok. I would keep the from me

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

I close my eyes

We are alone

I hold her tight

And no one can see her cry => crying*

She closes her eyes

She doesn't fight back

Love is there for all

Also for me (For me too)

I agree. Less literally translated but much clearer

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

Love is there for all

The love is there for all

Love is there for all

Also for me (For me too)

Why remove the "the"? On the one hand it is a strange sentence but then I like the variation in the German text between the first three sentences, how to keep that? 

> For me too

 

Also a 2nd thought on the line "Ich mach die Augen zu": "Die augen zumachen" can have other meanings in German, for instance in a more figurative speech "to turn a blind eye". It is ambiguous whose eyes are actually closed. Should we add a comment on that one?

 

 

"More" next time

 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Lies
2nd thought

[Lies 1396]

@LudicrousC 

 

Mehr / More:

Moving away from the most literal translation it is nice to make the alterations you proposed. The text is pretty straightforward in German, which makes it very powerful, but the literal translation is a bit too minimalistic in English and then all of a sudden somehow some of the power is lost.

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

I need a lot

And much of it

And only for me

Only for me

Of all that

One wants to have

I need ten times as much

I never get full (It’s never enough for me)

I never get full (It’s never enough for me)

It is better when one has more

> It's never enough for me (or: For me it's never enough, starting the sentence with the me)

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

What I have

Is too little for me

I need much => a lot

I need very much => quite a lot

Have nothing to give

agree

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

For what step down => Do without, what for?

This line "Wozu Verzicht?" I find quite difficult to grasp. In German there are multiple meanings and depending on the one you take there are also multiple options in English, for instance renunciation or even abdication. Also Verzicht is a noun, and in this alternative it is more a verb. I have no better alternative and the option you propose at least grasps the concept in a clear manner, so I'll go with you on this one.

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

Although I am rich => I am rich though

Still that isn't enough => But it’s not enough

Zwar bin ich reich
Doch reicht das nicht

 

The two sentences are connected both through the zwar / doch as through the reich / reicht. I do not see an alternative in which we can also make use of the reich / reicht combination, a pity because I think this is a bit of word art. In the zwar / doch combination we have more options: though, although, indeed, true (etymology on zwar leads to "zu ware") i.c.w. but, nevertheless, anyway, still. 

 

I like your alternative. What do you think about this one:

It's true I am rich

But that just isn't enough

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

Modesty?

All that is alright

I take everything => it all

Even if it's vile

I never get full (It’s never enough for me)

I never get full (It’s never enough for me)

It is better when one has more

agree

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

There is no purpose (no point)*

I think your improvement hinting to (lack of a) tipping point is a really good one. The "Ziel" could also be translated as goal. When you say there is no goal, this can also imply the ever wanting more is a bottomless pit in which the goal (to become satisfied?) can never be reached.

 

On 5/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, LudicrousC said:

Exists no enough => There can’t be “enough” ¤

For me the quotes are ok, I have no strong opinion on the use of quotes. This is the first time they pop up, maybe because "enough" is both an adverb as a noun and the quotes hint towards the noun?

 

Another question:

Do you think we should try to make a distinction between these two combinations:

     Gibt kein Genug
     Ist nie zu viel

and 

    Gibt kein Genug
    Gibt nie zu viel

 

Gibt gibt's nicht in English, I find it difficult to grasp the difference. Maybe we should just leave that one as it is, what do you think?

 

PS don't worry about keeping track, stacking thought on though get's a bit messy anyway. Just share your thoughts and I'll sweep up all the deltas later. I am not looking at the French translations (as you are) though, I won't be able to catch the finesses there.

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Lies
added ?

[LudicrousC 5375]

Donaukinder - Children of the Danube

 

The Danube flows in a bloodshed

Where comfort and pain are melting away

Nothing good is lying secretly wet

On your muggy meadows

 

Nobody knows what happened here

The streams were rusty red

The fish couldn’t breathe anymore

And every swan was dead

On the shores, in the meadows

The animals felt sick

Out of the pastures, in the river

A dreadful stench was floating

 

Where are the children?

No one knows what happened here

Nobody saw anything

Where are the children?

No one saw anything

 

Soon mothers were standing near the stream

And shedding a flow of tears

On the fields, through the dykes

Grief was growing in every pond

Black flags floating over the town

All the rats were fat and full

The wells were poisoned, everywhere

And people drifted away

 

Where are the children?

No one knows what happened here

Nobody saw anything

Where are the children?

No one saw anything

 

The Danube flows in a bloodshed

Where comfort and pain are melting away

Nothing good is lying secretly wet

On your muggy meadows

 

Where are the children?

No one knows what happened here

Nobody saw anything

Where are the children?

No one saw anything

 

 

 

Il y a 13 heures, Lies a dit :

Mehr / More:

Moving away from the most literal translation it is nice to make the alterations you proposed. The text is pretty straightforward in German, which makes it very powerful, but the literal translation is a bit too minimalistic in English and then all of a sudden somehow some of the power is lost.

 

Yes, it's just like Los or Deutschland - that kind of lyrics is impossible to translate without alterations, I think, because the same repetitions can't be found in another language. Either we keep the same style and change the message, or we keep the message and move a bit away from the words.

 

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> It's never enough for me (or: For me it's never enough, starting the sentence with the me)

 

Yep, that sounds good too.

 

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This line "Wozu Verzicht?" I find quite difficult to grasp. In German there are multiple meanings and depending on the one you take there are also multiple options in English, for instance renunciation or even abdication. Also Verzicht is a noun, and in this alternative it is more a verb. I have no better alternative and the option you propose at least grasps the concept in a clear manner, so I'll go with you on this one.

 

Yep, in English, it's often much easier to go for the verb because it is definitely not an "abstract" language. (Hard to explain but in short, it's less about concepts than actions in English.)

 

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Zwar bin ich reich
Doch reicht das nicht

 

The two sentences are connected both through the zwar / doch as through the reich / reicht. I do not see an alternative in which we can also make use of the reich / reicht combination, a pity because I think this is a bit of word art. In the zwar / doch combination we have more options: though, although, indeed, true (etymology on zwar leads to "zu ware") i.c.w. but, nevertheless, anyway, still. 

 

I agree, that's why I wanted to change for an eye-rhyme. It's not the same type of connection, but still, a rhyme helps people make a connection between two lines. (And the fact that it's an eye-rhyme makes it more striking.)

That's why I'd keep it:

 

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It's true I am rich though

But that just isn't enough

 

Adding "just" is a good idea.

 

 

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I think your improvement hinting to (lack of a) tipping point is a really good one. The "Ziel" could also be translated as goal. When you say there is no goal, this can also imply the ever wanting more is a bottomless pit in which the goal (to become satisfied?) can never be reached.

 

Yep, exactly what I thought.

 

 

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For me the quotes are ok, I have no strong opinion on the use of quotes. This is the first time they pop up, maybe because "enough" is both an adverb as a noun and the quotes hint towards the noun?

 

Well in English, "enough" can only be a determiner, an adverb or a pronoun. That's why it sounds awkward when treated as a noun.

 

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Another question:

Do you think we should try to make a distinction between these two combinations:

     Gibt kein Genug
     Ist nie zu viel

and 

    Gibt kein Genug
    Gibt nie zu viel

 

To me, "(es) gibt" is closer to "there is/are" whereas "ist (sein)" is just "is (be)". That's why I go for

There can’t be “enough”

It’s never too much

I guess the second line is more like an answer to someone saying "But that's too much!" and the persona would say "No, it's never too much" meaning "Too much can never be said."

 

 

 

Le 06/06/2022 à 11:11, Lies a dit :

@LudicrousC

Both are good options. As a Dutch person I associate "all" more with the group concept: the largest group possible, namely the one with everyone in it.  On the other hand "everyone" to me is more on the "no one is exluded" side. Regarding this text I would go for the "no one is excluded" side, as he forces others to include him. Which is of course 'contradictio in terminis", or in text in this case

 

Yeah, I actually don't mind at all as both sound good to me. Sometimes I add another option just in case, but here your translation was fine.

 

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or: And talk smooth or: I am a smooth talker 

I have a slight preference for: I sneak up and I talk smooth, as it is closest to the original text and flows pretty good in English

 

The problem with "I talk smooth" is that the adverb is necessary here (smoothly then), but actually, there is the verb: smooth-talk. So we can go for:

I sneak up

And I smooth-talk

If you prefer.

 

 

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Why remove the "the"? On the one hand it is a strange sentence but then I like the variation in the German text between the first three sentences, how to keep that? 

 

Mostly because "the" doesn't have the same value as "der/das/die". Donaukinder above is a good example of "the" that can be kept. To try and explain simply, "the" in English is a deictic: it points at a specific object, something already mentioned before, or something that needs to be qualified. With "love", if you use "the", it needs to be something like "The love they both share" or "The love this mother gave him". But here, with LIFAD (Love is there for all), it's still love in general, or all kinds of love, actually. He's not focusing on a specific type of love. He gives love an even more general definition to make sure that even he can get some love too. On the contrary, in Donaukinder above, I kept "the" everytime the persona describes what happened in the town (meaning: the animals there are dead, the people who lived there have fled).

I know it's confusing. I spend hours and hours teaching that value to my students and it's always very tough to grasp.

 

 

 

Le 06/06/2022 à 10:33, Lies a dit :

You are more of a connaisseur of Rammstein than I am

 

I just try to be a walking encyclopedia - which is a very weird ambition when I come to think about it...

 

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I can imagine when he wrote the text "Er könnte etwas größer sein", at that moment he was not thinking of Paul. Maybe when you are on stage having fun with your friends this is what automatically happens.

 

You're right. I guess we have to decide which one is better in the context (man or penis). As I re-read the lyrics, the latter is probably what was originally meant, so you're right to keep "it" instead of "he".

 

 

Le 04/06/2022 à 18:59, Lies a dit :

@LudicrousC I think your second review / alterations of Wiener Blut makes the text more fluent and really great!

 

I have 2 things still to remark:

 

I like the repeating of the "the", as the German text also repeats the "in der". Why do you prefer to skip the repetitions?

 

Same reason as above about the value of "the".  When you talk in general, there's no article in front of "loneliness" and "sadness" ("the darkness" is a bit of an exception to the rule). If you say "the loneliness" you talk about a specific one: the loneliness of someone. But in the song, it's so general that it becomes a place where everybody is welcome. So it's impossible to use the article in English: it changes the meaning radically.

 

 

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I would guess these 2 sentences:

    Und wanderst du im tiefen Tal
    Und sei dein Dasein ohne Licht

Are conditional to this one:

    Fürchte kein Unglück keine Qual

 

Also I do not see a lead in the line "Und sei dein Dasein ohne Licht"  towards the shall in "you life shall be". Can you elaborate a bit on that one? A matching alternative could be:

And if you’re walking in the deep valley

And if your life is without any light

Fear no misfortune no pain

 

 

Well, the tense is definitely not the same wanderst is in present (so the inversion can be understood as conditional); sei and fürchte are in imperative (so the word order can't be another way, there's no conditional).

 

I think Shall makes it easier to translate an imperative for a thing (Dasein). Keeping the imperative (Be your existence without any light) is really too awkward.

Your life shall be without any light

makes it clear that's what the persona wants.

 

 

Le 04/06/2022 à 18:33, Lies a dit :

 

- a quick search on alternatives also brings: herding geese

> brings us to: Liese is dutifully herding geese?

 

Oh that's great, it sounds better indeed!

 

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I agree, but I think it is also a bit weird in German. All references I can find on "kosten" refer to tasting food in a manner that is enjoyful or to taste the nice things in life, but never people. However in German the verb "vernaschen" means to eat with great pleasure. "Jemand vernaschen" means to have sex with someone. Also I do recollect there is an old phrase in Dutch which is hardly ever used anymore. If a couple marries and they do not have sex before the wedding, in the wedding night they are (or most often the male is referred to be) "consumming the marriage" (with double mm instead of one m). The origin is in Latin where consummare means to complete or something like that. 

 

Anyways, what about: He wants to have a taste of her, wants to force her

 

That could very well be. I wouldn't go that far in the interpretation, as we just don't know. I think the lines you have right now are clean and crisp.

 

Yep, in French too, there's the expression "consommer le mariage".

 

To tell you the truth, I found the line too long in English, that's why I removed the second "wants". But the problem is with "have a taste of / taste her". I wondered if we could avoid the repetition of "taste" (it's the same translation later for probieren / schmecken) and go instead for "try":

He wants to try her, wants to force her

The only problem I've got is that, even if you can try food (and it means the same as taste), when you try someone, it means ask someone, go out with someone or challenge someone (test their patience or go to court).

(Same later with "Ich will von deiner Haut probieren" by the way, as "try" would mean: take her skin and put it on himself.   )

Edited June 8, 2022 by LudicrousC

[Lies 1396]

On 6/8/2022 at 12:34 PM, LudicrousC said:

Mostly because "the" doesn't have the same value as "der/das/die". Donaukinder above is a good example of "the" that can be kept. To try and explain simply, "the" in English is a deictic: it points at a specific object, something already mentioned before, or something that needs to be qualified. With "love", if you use "the", it needs to be something like "The love they both share" or "The love this mother gave him". But here, with LIFAD (Love is there for all), it's still love in general, or all kinds of love, actually. He's not focusing on a specific type of love. He gives love an even more general definition to make sure that even he can get some love too. On the contrary, in Donaukinder above, I kept "the" everytime the persona describes what happened in the town (meaning: the animals there are dead, the people who lived there have fled).

I know it's confusing. I spend hours and hours teaching that value to my students and it's always very tough to grasp.

Thanks, I think your explanation of "the" is quite crisp. The Dutch language is more related to German, the same distinction between " liefde" and "de liefde" exists, so it feels as if information is lost. I removed the "the" 

[LudicrousC 5375]

I'm back again with Halt. Not sure, but I guess we've got all of them done now.   There are still a few lines that leave me pondering again and again, so I offer two options and let you choose.

 

Halt - Stop

 

I’m different now

They’ve changed me

But I still believe that

There are too many people

I can’t stand them

They’re tormenting me with their jokes

But the most wicked of sounds

Is their heartbeat

 

Stop

Hold on

Stop

Hold on

I can’t

Can’t stand it

Stop

Put an end to that beating

 

Can’t you see I’m not feeling well

But they’re pumping more blood in and

How quickly they multiply

They’re swarming over me

I can’t stand them

I’m trying to wipe them out

It’s pounding against my temples

Their heartbeat

 

Stop

Hold on

Stop

Hold on

I can’t

Can’t stand it

Stop

Put an end to that beating

Standing still in the breast

A dead heart is no loss

Do not move

No one torments me like that for fun

I let the sun onto your heart

 

No one torments me like that for fun

I’m bringing light onto your heart

The decision is not that difficult

I’m now coming home and getting my gun

 

Stop

Hold on

Stop

Hold on

No one torments me like that for fun

I let the sun into your heart

Edited June 19, 2022 by LudicrousC
Modifications

[Lies 1396]

4 minutes ago, LudicrousC said:

Not sure, but I guess we've got all of them done now.

I think so, I still have some of your translations to review though, and to reply to the reply to the reply 

Just calling it quits for now. 

 

@LudicrousC

Edited June 9, 2022 by Lies
forgot @

[LudicrousC 5375]

il y a 16 minutes, Lies a dit :

Just calling it quits for now.

 

I understand. I still have to finish my concert reviews too by the way.

[Lies 1396]

11 minutes ago, LudicrousC said:

I still have to finish my concert reviews too by the way.

 

@LudicrousC

I hope you had a good time!

 

and not too bad weather being outside in a stadium, the Netherlands overflowed with Hemelwasser this weekend :| 

Berlin is a fun city to visit anyway, you can drop me there anytime 

(although I live in a quite place, for me the city is to visit, have fun and than be gone again  )

[Lies 1396]

@LudicrousC

 

I've posted Wiener Blut (see the top of this thread), we now have 3 ready.

 

On 6/8/2022 at 12:34 PM, LudicrousC said:

If you say "the loneliness" you talk about a specific one: the loneliness of someone. But in the song, it's so general that it becomes a place where everybody is welcome. So it's impossible to use the article in English: it changes the meaning radically.

These are very interesting differences between languages indeed. In Dutch, when you say: "hij is in eenzaamheid gestorven", it means, he died alone. When you say: "hij is in de eenzaamheid gestorven", it means, he died of loneliness (the concept). Anyone can be in his/her personal version of loneliness (the former), but in the latter the greater concept of loneliness supersedes the individual. 

 

On 6/8/2022 at 12:34 PM, LudicrousC said:

Well, the tense is definitely not the same wanderst is in present (so the inversion can be understood as conditional); sei and fürchte are in imperative (so the word order can't be another way, there's no conditional).

 

I think Shall makes it easier to translate an imperative for a thing (Dasein). Keeping the imperative (Be your existence without any light) is really too awkward.

Your life shall be without any light

makes it clear that's what the persona wants.

I found my misinterpretation of the "Und sei dein Dasein ohne Licht" line quite interesting. I talked to a bilingual (Dutch/German) about it because I really did not get this. Then I read some articles of Dutch linguists on the Dutch usage of the imperative and conjunctive. In case you're interested I'll elaborate below on how I came to suggesting a conditional translation of this line below. The short version is there is a difference in how Dutch handle imperative and conjunctive as opposed to how Germans do. In the translation of Wiener Blut I've posted just now I have used the line including "shall" as you mentioned above.

 

 

It be so
----------
3 things are interesting to know about (the) Dutch in this context:
1. Dutch people most of the time are not aware that they are following grammar rules when they write/speak. When you ask them: why is this sentence written in a certain way, they will answer: it just is. As you might be aware Dutch are not fond of any rules, let alone grammar/language rules. When you hear a Dutch person speak German or English, they take their Dutch implicit rules with them and rape the other language with it, without them ever being aware they did anything wrong, going about in their happy and oblivious ways
2.  The conjunctive (aanvoegende wijs) is hardly ever used in Dutch. However there are some examples of the conjunctive, which are said to be "set in stone". This means, like an expression, these examples are quite fixed, you cannot alter the order of the words. In the translation of the "und sei ..." line, the sei part led me to the Dutch conjunctive "het zij zo" (so be it). The word "zij" as a conjugation of "zijn" (to be) is not much used in Dutch, mainly in the conjunctive. Combined with no. 3 the misinterpretation appears. 
3. The imperative (gebiedende wijs) in Dutch has many variations. Depending on for instance the order of the words in a sentence, intonation, usage of infinitif, tense and other stuff the meaning of a text changes or might become multi-interpretable. The imperative could even become a question/condition. 

 

Combining the 3 above the meaning of this line can become something like "it be so your existence without light?" This fits nicely in between the two lines which seem like a variation of psalm 23:4, especially if you interpret it as a conditional. (and this is why English and German people should always have their preventative measures in place to make sure Dutch people don't rape their language in public )
  

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Lies
typ-o

[Lies 1396]

@LudicrousC

 

On 6/8/2022 at 12:34 PM, LudicrousC said:

To tell you the truth, I found the line too long in English, that's why I removed the second "wants". But the problem is with "have a taste of / taste her". I wondered if we could avoid the repetition of "taste" (it's the same translation later for probieren / schmecken) and go instead for "try":

He wants to try her, wants to force her

The only problem I've got is that, even if you can try food (and it means the same as taste), when you try someone, it means ask someone, go out with someone or challenge someone (test their patience or go to court).

I would leave it with "He wants to have a taste of her, to force her". If we use "try" in the sentence with "kosten", it will be after the sentences with the sickle shoving. In that context try would be more "to challenge".

 

On 6/8/2022 at 12:34 PM, LudicrousC said:

(Same later with "Ich will von deiner Haut probieren" by the way, as "try" would mean: take her skin and put it on himself.   )

I wouldn't be surprised if at the end of this song Jakob would have skinned Liese and tried her skin on 

In the final version it now says "I want to taste your skin" 

 

 

 

[LudicrousC 5375]

Il y a 21 heures, Lies a dit :

3 things are interesting to know about (the) Dutch in this context:
1. Dutch people most of the time are not aware that they are following grammar rules when they write/speak. When you ask them: why is this sentence written in a certain way, they will answer: it just is. As you might be aware Dutch are not fond of any rules, let alone grammar/language rules. When you hear a Dutch person speak German or English, they take their Dutch implicit rules with them and rape the other language with it, without them ever being aware they did anything wrong, going about in their happy and oblivious ways
2.  The conjunctive (aanvoegende wijs) is hardly ever used in Dutch. However there are some examples of the conjunctive, which are said to be "set in stone". This means, like an expression, these examples are quite fixed, you cannot alter the order of the words. In the translation of the "und sei ..." line, the sei part led me to the Dutch conjunctive "het zij zo" (so be it). The word "zij" as a conjugation of "zijn" (to be) is not much used in Dutch, mainly in the conjunctive. Combined with no. 3 the misinterpretation appears. 
3. The imperative (gebiedende wijs) in Dutch has many variations. Depending on for instance the order of the words in a sentence, intonation, usage of infinitif, tense and other stuff the meaning of a text changes or might become multi-interpretable. The imperative could even become a question/condition. 

 

That's really interesting. Maybe being French means exactly the opposite, because French people tend to be really aware of a grammar and spelling rules (which then creates linguistic insecurity for those who find it hard to grasp the rules, esp. spelling ones)? I don't know.  

 

Il y a 20 heures, Lies a dit :

@LudicrousC

 

I would leave it with "He wants to have a taste of her, to force her". If we use "try" in the sentence with "kosten", it will be after the sentences with the sickle shoving. In that context try would be more "to challenge".

 

Yep, that's why I kept "taste" and "have a taste" to show there was a different verb originally. Besides, English doesn't mind repetitions.  

 

 

Il y a 20 heures, Lies a dit :

I wouldn't be surprised if at the end of this song Jakob would have skinned Liese and tried her skin on 

In the final version it now says "I want to taste your skin"

 

 

Yeah, it wouldn't be a surprise at all as "he sings inside the child" at one point, which is a weird way to describe what is probably pedocriminality, after all!